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What Does DFC presage for DZC 2.0?

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ElectricPaladin

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What Does DFC presage for DZC 2.0?

PostMon Mar 20, 2017 5:41 pm

I know that the premise isn't 100% bulletproof, but let's assume that Dropfleet Commander includes all the "lessons learned" from Dropzone Commander. Let's further assume that the next edition of Dropzone will also attempt to include those lessons. If that's the case, what changes do you think we'll see?

For my part, I think that we're likely to see battlegroup-level cohesion and some kind of negative tradeoff for Shaltari ground forces going "shields up." I could also see strategy ratings and battlefleet activation decks making their way into Dropzone.

What do you think?
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killionaire

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Re: What Does DFC presage for DZC 2.0?

PostMon Mar 20, 2017 10:34 pm

Dropzone absolutely needs a 2.0 at this point. It's done good up until about mid last year, but the overall design considerations of a 'living' game evolve past what it looks like on paper.

Current improvements:
Cleaner 'Embark/Disembark/Infantry' Ruleset --
Fast Mover general viability
Faction Internal Unit Balance (there's too many utterly useless models)
More diverse scenario/objective play --- Too much focus on holding a fixed point or objective building grabbing.
Improved 'gameplay use' for Dropship mobility --- currently you want to rely on basic tanks as little as possible.
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Gauntlet

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Re: What Does DFC presage for DZC 2.0?

PostWed Mar 22, 2017 1:52 pm

I'd be very surprised if DFC presages much of anything for DZC. DZC has been very successful and the core mechanics and list building generally lauded. Why fix what isn't broken?

The problems DZC suffers from are nicely noted by Killionaire... its mostly unit balance, air unit rules, walk on units/shaltari issues and general clean up.

What I would be interested in seeing/trying.

1) Dumping the randomized command card structure. Having commander types that give you access to a specific deck load-out, as well as possibly a different force structure option. Also I'd be interested in "Decks" of 6 cards... powerful but predictable abilities. You can only use each card once per game.

2) Battlegroup cohesion would be interesting.

3) Dropship freedom. Free the dropships from being tied to any particular squad.
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sybert1138

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Re: What Does DFC presage for DZC 2.0?

PostThu Mar 23, 2017 4:13 pm

Gauntlet wrote:1) Dumping the randomized command card structure. Having commander types that give you access to a specific deck load-out, as well as possibly a different force structure option. Also I'd be interested in "Decks" of 6 cards... powerful but predictable abilities. You can only use each card once per game.

2) Battlegroup cohesion would be interesting.

3) Dropship freedom. Free the dropships from being tied to any particular squad.


I like 3 and am okay with 2, but 1 is the big one for me. I'd love even something like building your own deck a size of which would be based on your command level and list size. That way you can eliminate some of the cards you don't personally use as much.
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Gauntlet

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Re: What Does DFC presage for DZC 2.0?

PostThu Mar 23, 2017 4:23 pm

Agreed. I think the deck aspect of DZC and DFC is easily the weakest and most destabilizing aspect of the game. Randomness has its virtues, but only to an extent... for example, I find in DFC that the sheer randomness of the crippling chart already makes the game feel less "strategic" and more "luck" adding large, powerful and random cards to that mix will only make that feeling worse (to me).

That being said, Chess is not a favorite of mine because of the complete lack of randomness... so everyone has their own taste. Still I think there is some room here for a more interesting gameplay.
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dread2005

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Re: What Does DFC presage for DZC 2.0?

PostThu Mar 23, 2017 4:27 pm

i dissagree on 3)


last game a squad of 4x Wolverine and 2x Raven-A had a Mission Objective!

now 1 of those Raven A was shoot down! but all 4 Wolverine alive, according to the Rulebook the wolverines in the Raven cant leave the Battlefield out of coherency !!! they where forced to drive off ;-p

how would you solve this? or what about that you always need to fill up the transport no half squads are allowed....

so why make the transports free?
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Re: What Does DFC presage for DZC 2.0?

PostThu Mar 23, 2017 11:13 pm

I would agree with 3)and the mechanics already exist in the game in some way (shaltari) so I don't see any problem in implementing it, but what I would truly want to see is more useful dropships. I have recently tried the Njord and I have to say that a dropship that can pull its weight after landing its troops is fantastic. It is the most expensive dropship there is yet I do not feel its a tax but more of an asset.
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sybert1138

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Re: What Does DFC presage for DZC 2.0?

PostFri Mar 24, 2017 12:42 pm

I agree about the Njord. She's almost an automatic for me. Loaded with a command brick of a Zeus and 3 Odins (Or however you want to piece that out) it's actually very devastating. I think all the factions could benefit from the "Assault Dropship".
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Re: What Does DFC presage for DZC 2.0?

PostFri Mar 24, 2017 3:34 pm

sybert1138 wrote:I agree about the Njord. She's almost an automatic for me. Loaded with a command brick of a Zeus and 3 Odins (Or however you want to piece that out) it's actually very devastating. I think all the factions could benefit from the "Assault Dropship".


A x4 Ares "shooting squad" for me.

EDIT: Part of what works for the Njord is that a Poseidon-load of PHR walkers focused on just a few targets can end up with one or two members with not much to do other than stay out of the way as a reliable thing. So it's oddly cheaper.
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ElectricPaladin

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Re: What Does DFC presage for DZC 2.0?

PostFri Mar 24, 2017 4:32 pm

I know the Shaltari are in a very different position because gates have always gotten play, even as dropships have declined. But I still wonder what a Shaltari "assault gate" would look like. Maybe a lighter version of the firedrake (the wyvern?) that still has to chose between gating and shooting, but with a less badass weapon and at a lower price point? Or a gate that operates as an "assault gate" because it grants units it transports Lightning Reflexes?

I still want an immobile hard to kill gate, something like the totem, but for gating instead of doing all the other cool stuff that the totem does...
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