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How would you spice up force orgs?

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Novus

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Re: How would you spice up force orgs?

PostThu Jul 20, 2017 2:08 am

That is an excellent alternate take on the idea. Basically, it stemmed from seeing level two's in a list packed with special/rare units... like a sergeant commanding two A-10s, an Abrahms platoon, and a couple squads of special forces. Just seems really odd how unimportant to the game your commander can feel sometimes.
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J.D. Welch

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Re: How would you spice up force orgs?

PostThu Jul 20, 2017 3:17 am

Gauntlet wrote:So are you saying, that if you choose to use a very low level commander, you suddenly and significantly change your idea of what types of units you take? (obviously beyond the command unit and body guard) I think if you do, you're in a very very small minority. Whilst people do value commanders for their initiative and cards of course, and that might impact unit choice, simply out of their cost... I don't think many of us choose say... "I'm going to take Stalkers instead of Hunters because that will work better with a Level 1 or 2 Commander".

So I think his comment about wanting commanders to dictate more of the force organization is pretty interesting.

...

Its an interesting concept having the Commanders become the focal point of list building instead of... a respectful side-role. Right now, I'd argue the most dominant factor in list building is infantry squad count, or Battlegroup counts.

I'm not sure if you're addressing me or Novus, but, No, that's not what I'm saying.

At Clash, you have to take a Commander, so the choice of Commander, and CV, is just as important as getting the right allocation of resources for Infantry, AA, AT, etc. But that doesn't have a direct bearing, necessarily, on whether I take one type of AT asset over another.

But with every faction you have a choice of Command Unit. For PHR, if I'm taking a Nemesis or Hera, I'm going to put a CV3 Commander in it, no more, no less, because my experience is that they die too easily, and that then is a waste of points. There are others in my meta who disagree with me, and feel that the PHR command cards are so good that they demand that you take at least a CV4, and you really should be taking a CV5 Commander. I just feel that cards are too random and situational to sink the extra points into a Commander that is likely to die as early as Turn 3.

For UCM, I much prefer the Phoenix, and I use it aggressively, so for the same reason I'll generally take a CV3 in it, and sometimes drop it to a CV2 to get something squeezed into the list, but not necessarily an extra Rare choice. A friend of mine prefers the Kodiak more, much more, and he'll take a CV4 or 5 for the chance to beat me on Initiative.

So it's more the choice of command model influencing the CV level, primarily based on survivability (for me at least) and the likelihood that I'll feel like I've wasted points on too high of a Commander if my opponent gets off a successful assassination...

Hope that made sense...
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J.D. Welch

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Re: How would you spice up force orgs?

PostThu Jul 20, 2017 3:23 am

Novus wrote:That is an excellent alternate take on the idea. Basically, it stemmed from seeing level two's in a list packed with special/rare units... like a sergeant commanding two A-10s, an Abrahms platoon, and a couple squads of special forces. Just seems really odd how unimportant to the game your commander can feel sometimes.

You're talking about your experiences vs Resistance, right, Rich? See, there again, personally, I think the Resistance cards, especially Feral, just suck so badly, that I'd rather take other Units that I can get more use out of. It may not feel fluffy, but it's more efficient.

Then again, two Hellhogs, lots of tanks and a bunch of MFR does seem like putting too many points into those expensive baskets, so that you're not left with the tools you need to complete the task at hand...
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Re: How would you spice up force orgs?

PostThu Jul 20, 2017 4:25 am

Personally, I've always wanted Commanders to influence Reserve rolls. The idea being the higher level the commander, the more likely they are to be able to override having to wait for air support or reinforcements.
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Novus

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Re: How would you spice up force orgs?

PostThu Jul 20, 2017 5:18 am

JD, I get what you're saying and I really don't think there is anything wrong, as such. It just seems odd that commanders don't really mean much when compared to things like rare units. You did point something out, though. You HAVE to take a commander (in Clash and above?). How many folks would skip the commander ENTIRELY to get those extra 30+ points instead? Especially if "their cards suck." If those points were available to help me get another AA squad or Medusa, I might skip a commander simply because an extra squad would probably bring more utility to the force than some hit-and-miss cards and a higher chance to go first. Commanders just don't mean much for some reason.

Since you brought up Resistance specifically, this list has 7 rare squads in it and 5 standard squads using a level 2 commander. 7 squads is a LOT of rare units. Not the best list. But it's not horrible, either.

Standard Army
Clash: 1495/1500 points
Standard Army
  • Resistance Standard [1495/1500 pts]
    • Warlord's HQ [215 pts]
      • Alexander: M3 Alexander(Senior), AT-77 Lifthawk [215 pts]
    • Vehicle Detachment [179 pts]
      • Gun Wagons: 3x Gun Wagon, NT-1 Kraken [113 pts]
      • Thunder Wagons: 3x Thunder Wagon [66 pts]
    • Resistance Band [346 pts]
      • Veterans: 2x Occupation Veterans, AT-77 Lifthawk, 3x MT-90 Jackson [180 pts]
      • ^ Sharing ^ Fighters: 2x Resistance Fighters [48 pts]
      • ^ Sharing ^ Fighters: 2x Resistance Fighters [48 pts]
      • Sappers: 2x Sappers [70 pts]
    • Rusted Fist [270 pts]
      • Zhukovs: 2x M20 Zhukov, AT-77 Lifthawk [205 pts]
      • Barrel Bomber: Barrel Bomber [65 pts]
    • Rusted Fist [205 pts]
      • Zhukovs: 2x M20 Zhukov, AT-77 Lifthawk [205 pts]
    • Fast Strikers [280 pts]
      • Hellhog: J19 Hellhog(+Extra Ammo) [140 pts]
      • Hellhog: J19 Hellhog(+Extra Ammo) [140 pts]
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Re: How would you spice up force orgs?

PostThu Jul 20, 2017 12:56 pm

I think there's a bit of confusion over terminology

In Clash you have to take a unit that's flagged as "Command". You are not required to take a "Commander" such as a Squad Leader, etc. I know it was common practice for UCM to skip putting a commander on their Phoenix or Kodiak because of their command cards
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Gauntlet

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Re: How would you spice up force orgs?

PostThu Jul 20, 2017 1:00 pm

Well I think the method I laid out would

A) Subtract nothing from the current importance of commanders.
B) Could be used to justify and apply an extra "tax" albeit a tax with benefits... for wanting such elite units.

However, I think there is plenty of argument for changing the rare rule and making it more restrictive.
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Novus

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Re: How would you spice up force orgs?

PostThu Jul 20, 2017 4:26 pm

Nobody wrote:I think there's a bit of confusion over terminology

In Clash you have to take a unit that's flagged as "Command". You are not required to take a "Commander" such as a Squad Leader, etc. I know it was common practice for UCM to skip putting a commander on their Phoenix or Kodiak because of their command cards


True. Thanks to Nobody for clarifying!
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