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Re: Dropzone Commander 2nd Edition

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:28 am
by beerninja
Is the story line up to now (conquest phase 2 I think?) going to in the new rule book?

Re: Dropzone Commander 2nd Edition

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:39 am
by Skylifter-1000
killionaire wrote:+2 is absolutely a downside. It's a little more than half firepower approx when firing a normally 2+ weapon by making it a 4+. And if you're shooting at a skimmer, it's even worse: Instead of half firepower, it's 1/3rds firepower.

Even if you 'get the drop' on something using half or a third firepower, what's left is going to crush your guys because they weren't firing at a penalty.


I dunno, a little more than half firepower on Overseer-doubled firepower seems like pretty much a bit more than normal firepower to me.

But maybe there'll be a change or two to how specific units work, so hard to say whether it'll be an actual problem.

Re: Dropzone Commander 2nd Edition

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:26 am
by stormbringer
Gonefishing wrote:
stormbringer wrote:But seriously, with DnS, the Panther will need to be reaction firing on 5s again in 2nd and I don't think many shaltari generals would mind having infinite range chopped back to balance that out.


It will be an interesting one, on the one hand with transports now flying at 3" means the Panther will be more easy to hide from, on the other hand I dont know what assumed height the attack runs come in at, and as fast movers will be worth extra vp and your panther shot down 2 of them on 5's... :lol: :twisted:

Might be 5's /infinite but E7 rather than 8? - as I dont see Hawk dropping the infinite range, thats its usp.


I had not picked up on the aircraft height changes- definitely makes infinite range less frightening. I think 5s to reaction fire will be essential for the Panther in that case.

Whether something is needed to balance that now; I don't know? But if Hawk think so then I definitely don't think it should be e7 as that makes it not a lot better than a single Phobos - but twice the price!

Ps it's usp could be a 30 inch range - active countermeasures give plenty of fluff to support that.

Re: Dropzone Commander 2nd Edition

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:33 am
by Gonefishing
Skylifter-1000 wrote:
I dunno, a little more than half firepower on Overseer-doubled firepower seems like pretty much a bit more than normal firepower to me.

But maybe there'll be a change or two to how specific units work, so hard to say whether it'll be an actual problem.


From my reading of the overseer rules (which could be wrong!), in order to get the benefit those skimmers would need to activate on the ground, it would not apply to transported units. That (and several other considerations) would impact the effectiveness of any DNS/Overseer shenanigans already I think.

Re: Dropzone Commander 2nd Edition

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:10 pm
by Skylifter-1000
Gonefishing wrote:
Skylifter-1000 wrote:
I dunno, a little more than half firepower on Overseer-doubled firepower seems like pretty much a bit more than normal firepower to me.

But maybe there'll be a change or two to how specific units work, so hard to say whether it'll be an actual problem.


From my reading of the overseer rules (which could be wrong!), in order to get the benefit those skimmers would need to activate on the ground, it would not apply to transported units. That (and several other considerations) would impact the effectiveness of any DNS/Overseer shenanigans already I think.


That is a rules issue that'll have to be cleared up, up to now nothing in the Overseer rules indicates that, imo, it just doesn't come up without DnS.

Re: Dropzone Commander 2nd Edition

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:47 pm
by Stompzilla
It doesn't matter that a unit loses half it's firepower, if the unit is built with that in mind, to take advantage of the rule. As I keep saying, on average dice, 6 Slayers should kill 3 Rapiers on a turn they DnS.

Once the biggest threats to them are alpha striked (Alpha Struck?) they can go about their usual skimming on the ground shenanigans, getting their normal 12 x E11 shots at Acc 2+.

Re: Dropzone Commander 2nd Edition

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:53 pm
by _ghost_
But you can't build your whole army with that in mind. It virtualy Doubles the points of the unit.

So if you put that much emphasis on alpha strike DnS units you will lack anything else.

Re: Dropzone Commander 2nd Edition

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:22 pm
by Stompzilla
Plenty of points left over after 6 Slayers and dropship.

You don't even really need to go all in for 6. I currently use 4 and they are great, even without DnS. 2 Dead Rapiers are still a result.

Odins are what you really need to worry about though, because those suckers don't die easy and shoot from turn 1 onwards and once on a CL don't tend to move or be moved.

Re: Dropzone Commander 2nd Edition

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:27 pm
by Stompzilla
You also only have to alpha strike 1 or 2 key units to get yourself a big advantage and then go on as normal.

Re: Dropzone Commander 2nd Edition

PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:28 pm
by stormbringer
I recall that everyone will be getting the same force organisations chart in 2nd- happy with that. ....

....another thing I hope to see balanced is command value costs and deck abilities as it seems ucm pay some of the highest points but get the worst decks while phr and scourge pay the lowest and get the best decks!

I also wonder whether CV costs should drop in general? High CVs costing 150 points are losing lists the equivalent of a top class unit. With the need for more transports in 2nd, Hawk could support model sales by reducing CV costs to every faction- win-win!