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Panther!

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Major Awesome

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Re: Panther!

PostThu Sep 22, 2016 3:42 pm

Any post-invasion thoughts on the Panther anyone?
~Major Awesome~
Hedgehog schemer, Resistance lover, and on those random full moons when PHR aren't everywhere my true nature as cyborg comes out.
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Stompzilla

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Re: Panther!

PostThu Sep 22, 2016 6:30 pm

The only time I fought one it didn't shoot down a single aircraft. It's a great unit and I had success with mine but I think all the doom mongering was a little premature.
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Major Awesome

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Re: Panther!

PostWed Sep 28, 2016 4:39 pm

Stompzilla wrote:The only time I fought one it didn't shoot down a single aircraft. It's a great unit and I had success with mine but I think all the doom mongering was a little premature.


It's been a while and the furor has died down... so I guess this about sums it up? Unless anyone else had some thoughts from their experience at Invasion?

I had a game recently where I took 1 Panther and for the first time in four games it felt like it pulled it's weight. Unfortunately it was purely due to luck. I hadn't been able to shoot with it all turn and on my opponents last activation he flew a Neptune with Helios through it's line of fire and I took a "why not" shot because I had nothing else left to do that turn. The dice gods smiled, letting me hit 3 times and down the Neptune. My opponent (JD), also claimed it made him move his forces differently, more cautiously... but most of the game I was wishing it were a Firedrake for just a few more points.
~Major Awesome~
Hedgehog schemer, Resistance lover, and on those random full moons when PHR aren't everywhere my true nature as cyborg comes out.
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J.D. Welch

Hawk Talon

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Re: Panther!

PostWed Sep 28, 2016 11:02 pm

Major Awesome wrote:
Stompzilla wrote:The only time I fought one it didn't shoot down a single aircraft. It's a great unit and I had success with mine but I think all the doom mongering was a little premature.


It's been a while and the furor has died down... so I guess this about sums it up? Unless anyone else had some thoughts from their experience at Invasion?

I had a game recently where I took 1 Panther and for the first time in four games it felt like it pulled it's weight. Unfortunately it was purely due to luck. I hadn't been able to shoot with it all turn and on my opponents last activation he flew a Neptune with Helios through it's line of fire and I took a "why not" shot because I had nothing else left to do that turn. The dice gods smiled, letting me hit 3 times and down the Neptune. My opponent (JD), also claimed it made him move his forces differently, more cautiously... but most of the game I was wishing it were a Firedrake for just a few more points.

Shenanigans!!! Pure Shenanery! :lol:

My first time facing a Panther, and what happens? Maj. Awesome rolls 5,6,6 To Hit with Reaction Fire, then absolutely decimates the Neptune with his Damage rolls (I think he did 6 DPs to it), then rolls a 5 for a Wreck, but managed to roll double 4's to destroy both Helios.

Shenanigans, says I!!! Traumatized, I'm traumatized, I tell ya!!! :shock: :o

But, in all seriousness, it definitely affected how I moved my aircraft, and how I moved my Hera blob. I had my 2 Neptunes hiding behind the central objective building (we were playing Careful Advance), and I wanted to try to score on the Critical Location to my left, so I moved out the Erebos' Neptune first, hoping to draw fire (it's actually a good thing he didn't shoot at that Neptune), then next activation I could've deployed my Helios out of sight of the Panther, without risking moving their Neptune into the danger zone, but I didn't, and I paid the price.

I'm going to write a blog post on my personal blog about the game, so I won't go into more details here, but suffice it to say, it definitely affected how I moved my other aircraft and Type-3's, and what I did with them. It definitely had an effect on the game, as I sorely missed having those Helios over on that side of the board the whole game...
I love my job (well, I love having a job), but a bad day of gaming beats a good day of work every time!

http://www.theroadtovalhalla.blogspot.com
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Darios

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Re: Panther!

PostThu Sep 29, 2016 9:42 am

well actually the chances of killing a hera are abyssimal... just saying...
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Gonefishing

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Re: Panther!

PostThu Sep 29, 2016 6:16 pm

Darios wrote:well actually the chances of killing a hera are abyssimal... just saying...



Not a bad chance of killing one of the Apollos though (1 Hit and 4+ to double it out), and not a terrible chance to wound the Hera..

I think the board control the Panther offers is the best thing about it, you either radically alter your own movement to avoid it (which is even more detrimental when your playing against a race as mobile as the Shaltari) in which case it should not be killing much. Or you move as normal...in which case it will kill a lot. Win Win for the Shaltari.
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Grey Mage

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Re: Panther!

PostThu Sep 29, 2016 7:30 pm

Considering it costs 3x as much as an Apollo Id be pretty insulted if it didnt have a good chance at killing one.
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Gonefishing

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Re: Panther!

PostThu Sep 29, 2016 8:48 pm

Grey Mage wrote:Considering it costs 3x as much as an Apollo Id be pretty insulted if it didnt have a good chance at killing one.


Indeed - most AA both costs more and has at least an Ok to good chance of taking down an Apollo in range, so I am by no means saying that the fact the Panther can do it is a bad thing, just that I can understand why the Panther presence on the table constrained JD's movement - even for units like the Hera Squad, yes the Hera would probably be ok (it would take very good dice for a Panther to kill it with reaction fire), but the danger to the Apollos with it would constrain his units movement.

I seriously don't think the Panthers power lies in its killing effectiveness, it the board control it gives while your opponent avoids it. The only problem I have with the Panther is its infinite range. I can only speak from my limited experience of playing against it so far, but it did completely gimp my movement just by being on the table, it did not kill much as I did not give it targets but it still had a big effect on my game / army that I consider is disproportionate to the points it costs.
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Garrack

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Re: Panther!

PostThu Sep 29, 2016 9:44 pm

Its still be proving amazingly useful to me.

Its kinda like have a countermeasure hack every-turn - kinda... because it also has higher energy and better accuracy :p
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J.D. Welch

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Re: Panther!

PostFri Sep 30, 2016 12:30 am

Gonefishing wrote:
Grey Mage wrote:Considering it costs 3x as much as an Apollo Id be pretty insulted if it didnt have a good chance at killing one.


Indeed - most AA both costs more and has at least an Ok to good chance of taking down an Apollo in range, so I am by no means saying that the fact the Panther can do it is a bad thing, just that I can understand why the Panther presence on the table constrained JD's movement - even for units like the Hera Squad, yes the Hera would probably be ok (it would take very good dice for a Panther to kill it with reaction fire), but the danger to the Apollos with it would constrain his units movement.

And that's exactly what it did. Please read Part 1 of my batrep vs the Panther. It felt like that scene in Enemy AtThe Gates -- who jumps across the gap first, and does Ed Harris nail the first guy, or the second?

Gonefishing wrote:I seriously don't think the Panthers power lies in its killing effectiveness, it the board control it gives while your opponent avoids it.

Yup, and in theory that's not a bad thing, it's just different, and we look for new and different in new Units from Hawk...

Gonefishing wrote:The only problem I have with the Panther is its infinite range.

See, I just don't think that's ever going to go away, so I'd advocate either making it 3+ Accuracy, or making Slow To Traverse +4.

Gonefishing wrote:I can only speak from my limited experience of playing against it so far, but it did completely gimp my movement just by being on the table, it did not kill much as I did not give it targets but it still had a big effect on my game / army that I consider is disproportionate to the points it costs.

That's an interesting way to phrase it, and echoes how I feel, but I don't advocate making it any more expensive.

And in this particular case, if the Panther had 6+ reaction fire, that Neptune still would've died, because Andrew (Major Awesome) rolled 5,6,6 to hit, and then did at least 5 DPs to it. But I might've felt a little better about it. Maybe not... :lol:
I love my job (well, I love having a job), but a bad day of gaming beats a good day of work every time!

http://www.theroadtovalhalla.blogspot.com
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