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Scenario: Frontline Control

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chrisloomis13

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Scenario: Frontline Control

PostThu Jul 23, 2015 6:58 pm

Been working on my own scenario geared towards competitive play without the trappings that the current ones can have.

Thoughts can be read here, but if you just want to read the mission scroll down after following the link:
http://crispmini.blogspot.com/2015/07/dzc-scenario-frontline-control.html

Basic idea for those that don't want to follow a link is there are three 8" bands between the players that are scored similar to ground control, though w/o aircraft at the moment. The farther the band is from your table edge, the more bonus points it is worth, but likewise for your opponent across from you, so you must balance offense and defense. These are scored at the end of turns 4, 5, and 6.

Current issue is getting it to score in sync with the Hawk Tournament pack, as if one play scores 1 pt more each of the 3 rounds, they win by 3 which translates to a larger victory than perhaps it is worth. All feedback is appreciated.
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J.D. Welch

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Re: Scenario: Frontline Control

PostFri Jul 24, 2015 6:11 am

Hey, Chris.

I can't read your post, Safari keeps having a problem with the page and tries to reload it, which it does for a second then tells me there's a problem with that page again. Then it gives up after about 5 tries. :(

Can you please post the entire contents of that page here? I'm intrigued by your idea, and want to check it out, but currently my iPad is the only computer I have to access the interwebs...

Thanks!
I love my job (well, I love having a job), but a bad day of gaming beats a good day of work every time!

http://www.theroadtovalhalla.blogspot.com
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chrisloomis13

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Re: Scenario: Frontline Control

PostFri Jul 24, 2015 1:41 pm

Odd, I can't recreate w/ my Safari. First here is the link to the pdf (prob should have done it this way the first time round)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-mutU30hSmHcVBVQ1BhTlpqOEE/view?usp=sharing

This is the copied text from that post just explaining some of what I attempted.

It has certainly been a while since I've posted here, mostly due to no longer taking commissions. I'll save the whole story for another time, but this seems the best place for me to put out my ideas and what I've been working on. If you are looking for the scenario scroll down, as what follows is my thought process and procedure.

I've been playing solely Dropzone Commander now for nearly 2 years, and have found myself a bit disappointed with the competitive scenarios allotted us. It's not to say they are all bad, but it feels they can be a bit repetitive and favor particular factions and can feel a bit random. I will most likely write a whole post on why the current scenario goals and objectives are lacking, but this isn't about that. What it is about is looking at other systems that are regarded as having great competitive play, and seeing what they are doing that DZC is not. Then translating it to DZC.

First look was at Privateer Press, as they are the 2nd largest game played around me competitively, and, unlike #1, is generally praised for it's extremely tight rules that produce a competitive game. I played Hordes when it first released, and so have a loose understanding of the game system. Going through their tournament pack, most of their scenarios would boil down to Focal Points in the center that are scored at the end of every turn. This wasn't a new idea, as scoring Focal Points at the end of the game is one of the problems, as I see it, in competitive DZC. So this solution was already on my radar, and there are plenty of Focal Point missions already. I asked other local wargamers, and many said Privateer Press, but others mentioned Infinity.

Infinity is a game I have not played and know little about, other than a few batreps I've watched on youtube some time ago. There were a few scenarios that peeked my interest, and some I could see easily translating to DZC, but the one named "Frontline" really struck me. It would translate seamlessly and bore resemblance to Ground Control, which is a DZC scenario that some in the community find necessary in tournaments to offset all of the Focal Point and Objective missions.

I've play tested some other scenarios with Focal Points that score every turn. The problem has been that faster armies take an early lead which is hard for the slower armies to catch up since they have to move into position and than remove the enemy. By the time they do this, it is usually too late. Starting to score on turn 4, stops this early lead and forces both players to begin scoring at the same time. It also prevents either player from winning on the last activation. Keeping scoring to the 24" in the middle prevents either player from scoring the corners, but the 48" width of the table still allows for some interesting play on the flanks by the quick and sneaky.

So far in play testing it has been met with enthusiasm, and so I am releasing it to the world to hopefully get more testing. One thing that has been found is that in it's first iteration the score produced did not reflect properly in the Hawk Tournament system. If one player scores 1 point ahead of his opponent at the end of the 3 turns scored it results in a victory by 3, which is a decent margin. I have brought the bonus points scored down to help mitigate this possibility. Another thought I had was to just half the margin before consulting the Hawk Tournament pack, but then there is the question of round up or down. Both have some merit. Lastly, there are other thoughts to make it more DZC, such as allowing infantry in buildings to be weighed at double their points, and/or allow aircraft to throw their points in also like they do in Ground Control.

There are a multitude of ways it could be tweaked, but the core premise of having the 3 8" band between the players being scored the last half of the game really helps level any current disadvantages that may exist between all factions, and produces a victor based less on silly tricks or lucky dice rolls; not to mention a bloody and vicious game between two armies.
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wowskyguy

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Re: Scenario: Frontline Control

PostFri Jul 24, 2015 2:33 pm

Very interesting.

It reminds me of the ol' Up Front City Fight scenario. The idea is that VPs are awarded multiplying the range band by the number of men inside buildings. These are only awarded at the end of the game, though.

In DzC terms it could be
12" closer to your side, 0VP
next 12 " closer to your side, 1VP per infantry squad inside buildings
next 12 " Past middle board, 2VP per infantry squad inside buildings
last 12", closer to the enemy side, 3VP per infantry squad inside buildings.

Limiting that to infantry squads only, makes the point count lower. Also, Tanks and aircraft must be support for the infantry to survive.

A scenario with several focal points where everything counts will probably make for high unbalance on the VP count. Once a side has a clear advantage on kills it just need to advance to "better" focal points.


I understand the problem with last turn drops and I see two possible solutions.

One is to make VP counts on earlier turns. This may lead to high VP difference, because VPs will be counted several times.

Another is to make the a variable end. Let's say a classical Focal point Scenario. This variant, the game will possibly end on turn 5. At the end of turn 5, you roll dice. 5+ the game really ended. 1-4 it goes for another turn. End of turn 6, roll dice, 3+ ends the game, 1-2 continues. If it continues, at the end of turn 7 it automatically ends.

Cheers,
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Andy

"Here's everything I know
about war: Somebody wins,
somebody loses, and
nothing is ever the same again."
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Egge

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Re: Scenario: Frontline Control

PostFri Jul 24, 2015 4:58 pm

I like the part of scoring turn 4, 5 and 6. The Swedish Planet fall should work well with that as well instead of turn 3 and 6. We could just change it and divide the end results with 3 rounding off to nearest whole instead of the 2 we have now. I can totally see a new type of missions with scoring areas/focal points and objectives in turn 4-6.

For the topic's mission, which I think is fine, I would add the versions;

1. Infantry count as tripple inside of buildings.
2. You only get the bonus points as well as one point for each part of the field that there are no contesting enemy units.
3. If an area suffer two buildings destroyed in a single turn that area will not give away points this round. But will the next and so on. Only buildings with the majority inside the area counts. Makes demolish valid but far from taken over as there are unlikely to be 6 buildings with the majority inside an area.

I could also see a set of missions where you have a take and extract mission where you can't get objectives off the table but instead give points for each objective you are holding in turn 4-6. Fast movers Hooooo!
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yoink101

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Re: Scenario: Frontline Control

PostFri Jul 24, 2015 7:52 pm

wowskyguy wrote:Limiting that to infantry squads only, makes the point count lower. Also, Tanks and aircraft must be support for the infantry to survive.

I like the idea. What about infantry bases? That makes apcs for the UCM attractive. Alternatively, it could be scored by points of infantry in each section. Say for every 50 points of infantry, that's a VP (or two or three, depending o. Where they are).
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wowskyguy

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Re: Scenario: Frontline Control

PostSat Jul 25, 2015 2:10 am

yoink101 wrote:
wowskyguy wrote:Limiting that to infantry squads only, makes the point count lower. Also, Tanks and aircraft must be support for the infantry to survive.

I like the idea. What about infantry bases? That makes apcs for the UCM attractive. Alternatively, it could be scored by points of infantry in each section. Say for every 50 points of infantry, that's a VP (or two or three, depending o. Where they are).


It could work with infantry bases, but then I suggest to be half VP of what I wrote before.

Cheers,
--
Andy

"Here's everything I know
about war: Somebody wins,
somebody loses, and
nothing is ever the same again."
Admiral Constanza Stark,
C.Y. 9784
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J.D. Welch

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Re: Scenario: Frontline Control

PostFri Sep 11, 2015 7:02 am

So, how did this work out for you at the Endgame tournament last weekend, Chris?

The custom scenario Battlefront that we've put together works out really well. You score the Focal Points at the end of every even turn. In most test games these have been very close games.

Two changes we made were to introduce a Deployment Zone that extends from each player's left corner 18" in towards the center of their board edge, and 6" deep onto the board. This allows slower armies, such as drive-on Scourge, to still be able to score on some if not all of the Fical Points that are along the centerline at the end of Turn 1; otherwise, without a Deployment Zone and subsequent Deployment Phase, slower armies just can't even contest the centerline FPs at the end of Turn 2 (and I don't mean PHR here, since IMHO PHR should be taking dropships aplenty).

Secondly, we decided that Infantry should score 2X their points value towards FPs, as some of the standard FP scenarios do. This encourages both CQB and selective building demo, which I think is a good thing.

The revised scenario can be found here. We will be playing this in our tournament next Saturday, September 19th. It would be great if you guys at Endgames could try it out, at least once, if not a few times, and give us your feedback. I will likewise try to playtest your custom scenario with the bands as soon as possible...

Thanks...
I love my job (well, I love having a job), but a bad day of gaming beats a good day of work every time!

http://www.theroadtovalhalla.blogspot.com
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chrisloomis13

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Re: Scenario: Frontline Control

PostMon Sep 14, 2015 4:28 pm

So I've updated to version 2.0 after the Tournament. It can be found here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-mutU30hSmHRlczM0ZpR2FFblk/view

The major changes is to drop the multi turn scoring, as there is no precedence within the game currently and trying to patch it to work w/ the Hawk Tournament packet is clunky. Also if Hawk is going to continue to balance towards a 6 turn game it makes more sense to play that way. Aim to test if letting Aircraft score is a good step forward.

More thoughts and specific results of this scenario at the Tournament are found here:
https://dzcrollinghot.wordpress.com/2015/09/14/frontline-control-v2-0/

JD, I'm kind of on hiatus from the game b/c my Resistance army needs to complete, I hate having unfinished projects and my back log is piling up. I'll see if anyone else wants to give it a go. I prefer the scoring of 4,5,6 as it gives time for the opening game maneuvering and then it's into the thick of it, but that may be just like my opinion man.
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J.D. Welch

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Re: Scenario: Frontline Control

PostTue Sep 15, 2015 2:20 am

chrisloomis13 wrote:JD, I'm kind of on hiatus from the game b/c my Resistance army needs to complete, I hate having unfinished projects and my back log is piling up. I'll see if anyone else wants to give it a go. I prefer the scoring of 4,5,6 as it gives time for the opening game maneuvering and then it's into the thick of it, but that may be just like my opinion man.

Cool, thanks. Yeah, you have a good sized crew there, so it would be great if someone/anyone gave the Battlefront scenario a try...

As far as which turns to score on, I understand what you're saying about scoring on Turn 4, 5 and 6, however the way the scenario works, that the Focal Points move 12" away from whomever just scored it, it would make it difficult, I think, for the players to react to that, and wouldn't be as much of a contest; the FP would just get pushed into the other player's lap after turn 4, and slower factions wouldn't be able to get within 6" of it Turn 5 to score a contesting VP, then it would just get pushed back into their laps after turn 5, etc. I think the scoring would be predictable, and whoever was able to get to dominate the FPs turn 4 would end up getting the advantage in overall scoring. At least, that's how it seems to me what might happen. But we'll try it that way after this Saturday's tournament and see how that works. In the meantime, if any of the other Bay Area/Endgame guys can try it out, please ask them to run it scoring on turns 2, 4 and 6, at least for at least two games' worth tries...

Thanks again!
I love my job (well, I love having a job), but a bad day of gaming beats a good day of work every time!

http://www.theroadtovalhalla.blogspot.com
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