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Lorns Guide to PHR or German Space Magic

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racephysics

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Re: Lorns Guide to PHR or German Space Magic

PostThu Aug 13, 2015 4:02 pm

Thanks again for another update. Oh man I can't wait for those ladies of Valhalla to take that scout role.
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Vaktathi

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Re: Lorns Guide to PHR or German Space Magic

PostFri Aug 14, 2015 2:25 am

Lorn wrote: So if you want to rely on getting the initiative you should get a commander at least 1 level higher then your opponent. That is expensive, a PHR level 4 commander costs 120P that is around 1 Squad of Infantry.
One thing I would point out here, PHR get a level *5* commander for 120pts, and that's 20-30pts less than everyone else can get a CV5 commander for (except Scourge).


PHR gets a pretty sweet deal on higher level commanders, and have a great deck to go with them.
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J.D. Welch

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Re: Lorns Guide to PHR or German Space Magic

PostFri Aug 14, 2015 7:10 am

Thanks for Part 2, Lorn.

Interesting list. I haven't considered Valkyries yet, since none of the list building software tools incorporate them, but I usually take Drones in Tritons with Stealth Missile systems, generally as a points filler but also because the Skyhammer Missiles can be quite effective (for me, at least) and the spare 20 points lets the Tritons be useful after the Skyhammers have been spent. They're not something to rely on, being SC, but they make the other guy nervous and gives his AA something to be distracted by. Point being, for those same points I'm looking forward to trying out the Valkyries! (Also, I picked up a blister of Janii and a blister of Triton A2s at GenCon to be able to take a min squad of Janii for projecting SoI, as I'm really liking the Nemesis, but as you say, no Poseidon for him, so I need to project that SoI out there for Drive Hack, etc...)

One question, though: Why do you have your Apollos in one squad of 1 and one squad of 3? Wouldn't two squads of 2 be more efficient, and/or one squad of 4 more survivable & destructive? Or is the solo Apollo generally just doing objective shuttling duty, and the squad of 3 assigned to be more aggressive?

Thanks again!
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Lorn

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Re: Lorns Guide to PHR or German Space Magic

PostFri Aug 14, 2015 7:56 am

Vaktathi wrote:
Lorn wrote: So if you want to rely on getting the initiative you should get a commander at least 1 level higher then your opponent. That is expensive, a PHR level 4 commander costs 120P that is around 1 Squad of Infantry.
One thing I would point out here, PHR get a level *5* commander for 120pts, and that's 20-30pts less than everyone else can get a CV5 commander for (except Scourge).
PHR gets a pretty sweet deal on higher level commanders, and have a great deck to go with them.


Like I said I personally do not want to rely on a big Commander, because it is a big point investment and not reliable enough for my taste. It is not that Commanders a bad, for me units are better.


J.D. Welch wrote:One question, though: Why do you have your Apollos in one squad of 1 and one squad of 3? Wouldn't two squads of 2 be more efficient, and/or one squad of 4 more survivable & destructive? Or is the solo Apollo generally just doing objective shuttling duty, and the squad of 3 assigned to be more aggressive?


Indeed the latter, though I intend to test that further. As the change of the Squad size is not even fully official I have zero experience with single Apollos I intend to remedy that. Same goes for the Valkyries and the Medusa. Fun fact for some missions even a Juno might give Valkyries the needed speed.

German space magic for PHR would you like to know more?
http://www.hawkforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=7017

German space magic for all and this time it is in Space!
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=10506
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Re: Lorns Guide to PHR or German Space Magic

PostFri Aug 14, 2015 2:41 pm

Lorn wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:
Lorn wrote: So if you want to rely on getting the initiative you should get a commander at least 1 level higher then your opponent. That is expensive, a PHR level 4 commander costs 120P that is around 1 Squad of Infantry.
One thing I would point out here, PHR get a level *5* commander for 120pts, and that's 20-30pts less than everyone else can get a CV5 commander for (except Scourge).
PHR gets a pretty sweet deal on higher level commanders, and have a great deck to go with them.


Like I said I personally do not want to rely on a big Commander, because it is a big point investment and not reliable enough for my taste. It is not that Commanders a bad, for me units are better.


I've come to this conclusion too.

In the most recent of many examples: During a game vs Scourge with a lv5 commander, I got the first turn more often than he did, through a combination of good card usage, bad dice and splattering the very expensive commander, despite only running a lv 3 Zeus myself.
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Lorn

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Re: Lorns Guide to PHR or German Space Magic

PostFri Sep 25, 2015 10:45 am

So after Invasion is over I though I might put my summary here, but first my list:

Knights of Sidonia
Clash: 1500/1500 points
Standard Army
  • Sidonias Finest (PHR Standard Roster) [1500/1500 pts]
    • Kobayashi Group (Hand of the Sphere) [241 pts]
      • Command Squad: Zeus(Councillor), Odin, Neptune [241 pts]
    • Yuhata Group (Battle Pantheon) [223 pts]
      • Battle Squad: Phobos [63 pts]
      • Helios Squad: 2x Helios, Neptune [160 pts]
    • Tanikaze Group (Battle Pantheon) [263 pts]
      • Battle Squad: Phobos [63 pts]
      • Apollo Squad: 5x Apollo-A [200 pts]
    • Izana Group (Immortals) [141 pts]
      • Apollo Squad: Apollo-A [40 pts]
      • Immortals: 2x Immortals, Triton A1 [101 pts]
    • Hoshijiro Group (Pegasus Group) [387 pts]
      • Sirens: 2x Sirens, Triton A1 [129 pts]
      • Sirens: 2x Sirens, Triton A1 [129 pts]
      • Valkyries: 2x Valkyries, Triton A1(+Stealth Missiles) [129 pts]
    • Tsumugi Group (Heavy Pantheon) [245 pts]
      • Hades: Hades [205 pts]
      • Apollo Squad: Apollo-A [40 pts]

GAME 1:
My First game was Targets of Opportunity against Scourge with 2 Annihilators, more importantly he had 3 Squads of Infantry 2 Warriors and 1 of Aged Ones. I shot a lot on his backfield building he deployed 1 Squad of Infantry in the building which died T2-3 due to falling masonry. The Annihilatros deployed T1 and started to shoot buildings if I recall correctly the only shot he fired against may units got a 1 to hit. His Infantry deployed in 2 mid buildings and I got my Sirens in and Valkyries for the Aged Ones. The results were clear but it delayed my searching and a lot of my Girls died due too bad saves.

The rest of the game mostly was the Scourge shooting buildings (even preventing me from extracting my backfield objective) and me destroying the Scourge. In the end I found 1 Objective in T6 and most of the Scourge were dead resulting in a 15-5 pretty early and we got to watch the other games.


GAME 2:
Ground Control against PHR, most remarkable he had 2 Medusas but no Type 4. At the start
we had a lot of manoeuvre and some shooting at buildings. Around T3 we engaged, may attempts to damage the Medusas from afar failed due to Triton X healing. He split them which we both agreed on later helped me or at very least let my Hades live, as 1 Medusa was going at my Hades. The other after my AA, while my attempts to put templates at them failed horribly. But the Sirens and Valkyries were rather effective at putting damage on them. This enabled my Appolos to attack his 6 units of AA and in the end most of his ground forces were dead, the Hades could crawl back and kill his Type 2s. In the end I managed to control all quarters, but the mission had the special rules that you could contest quarters for 1 VP and Infantry scored double in buildings.

The game was a little weird as my opponent rolled a bit sub par for most of the time, I started out even worse but in the end I ended up with some amazing rolls. So I went from missing all shots sometimes to hitting and wounding all. In the end it was a 16-4.


GAME3:
Again PHR double Medusa and a Nemesis with a Hades in Secure the Flanks. The Blotz terrain was a big help as the Type 4 were unable to shoot much of my army for most of the time, or even my backfield building (choosing the table side has it´s perks) my shooting at his building was so successful that he did not even enter the building and went straight for the middle one. I could shoot down a good portion of his Infantry on the way there but he was able to attack my backfield with Sirens (unexpected for me) but I had the upper hand in CQB. And could later on again shoot the Medusas with Valkyries and Sirens, after both my Hades and the Medusa in range failed to damage each other (praise White Nanomachines). In the End his walkers reached the way around the middle building encircling it from bot sides. My Apollos attacked his Nemesis with my Hades and killed it off pretty fast.

I got 2 Objectives and both Focal points he contested 1 or both but I got a 20-0 as most of his army aside the Hades was dead.


GAME 4:
Again PHR, 1 Medusa, 1 Nemesis but the first FM an Athena in Bunker Assault. We both moved up our Infantry pretty soon, for me the idea was to get into Bunkers before his Athena could shoot down their Tritons. He also entered buildings pretty soon, the Medusa was also convinced the do so by Valkyries and he was shocked how far they could jump. Though my attempt to kill his Commander was thwarted by bad dice rolls and a weapon hack. The same happened to his attempts to kill mine. Noticeably I lost a CQB against 20 Immortals with 6 Sirens far more drastically then I would have thought. But as his Commander was unable to march in the middle and I could get all 3 Focal points in the middle, with him contesting them all. We both controlled the focal points in our quarters.

The end result was a 13-7 as I got no kill point bonus, the Athena was good at killing my Tritons and even got an Odin but was not as annoying as I would have thought. Bad dice rolls plagued me and together with me being tired made me a bit cranky for that game. But I hope we sorted that out afterwards.


GAME 5:
We played Military complex, both got the rear objective out T2 and Mike got 1 Archangel T2, shot down a Triton killed 1 base of Sirens inside but the other base got into the building, while my second squad went into the middle one.
There I found 1 objective which Mike could not get (though it was close) and he was never able to clear me out of the buildings I occupied and we both used most of our shooting against buildings (destroying 2 in the process).
His gunships got him the lead at kill points so it ended 11-9.

He could have engaged me more aggressively but then I would have extracted more objectives. Also those 4 AA units where enough to shoot down his Archangels (not before they each killed a Triton). It might have gone quite different if we had played Ground Control. I did also not even try to hunt his Ferrum with Apollos and instead played it safe by shooting buildings.
Last edited by Lorn on Fri Sep 25, 2015 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

German space magic for PHR would you like to know more?
http://www.hawkforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=7017

German space magic for all and this time it is in Space!
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=10506
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Lorn

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Re: Lorns Guide to PHR or German Space Magic

PostFri Sep 25, 2015 10:54 am

Of course I was pretty happy with my list, I also had a variant were I had 2 Apollos less and no Triton missiles for 1 Squad of Valkyries. But I was unhappy with the reduced AT and disliked Valkyries without a transport. In a FM infested meta one could swap 1 Squad of Sirens against 1 Squad of Valkyries though I liked their durability against falling masonry.

I might also try a list with less Apollos and 2 Medusas but I might miss the Apollos range even if the firepower of a Medusa is more amazing then the Apollos. My conclusion is that the Medusa needs a Triton X and that 2 are better then none. Also I think I can claim that they are no auto include.

For my list I would put the Hades Apollo into the group of 5, as the whole objective carry thing turned out to be less important then I anticipated.

German space magic for PHR would you like to know more?
http://www.hawkforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=7017

German space magic for all and this time it is in Space!
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=10506
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Re: Lorns Guide to PHR or German Space Magic

PostFri Sep 25, 2015 10:10 pm

A few weeks ago I had asked the PHR forums what the general consensus was on having Valkyries replace Immortals with Mercury Drones and the general thoughts on using an Apollo "blob" were.

I am relatively pleased that both were effective for you :D.

Sounds like some excellent battles. Were there any lists that you saw that you thought might have been bad matchups? Anything you dreaded seeing?

Congtrats on the win. Your list was very efficient - how German of you ;)

Zak
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Lorn

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Re: Lorns Guide to PHR or German Space Magic

PostFri Sep 25, 2015 10:45 pm

zaknafn wrote:Were there any lists that you saw that you thought might have been bad matchups? Anything you dreaded seeing?


Mega Mikes list, Apollos are pretty vulnerable to Gunships. And while I played against similar list back in Germany I would not like to face such a list in Ground Control with mine. The Hazards suits also would have made jumping straight for the Ferrum hard.
Last edited by Lorn on Fri Oct 23, 2015 8:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

German space magic for PHR would you like to know more?
http://www.hawkforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=7017

German space magic for all and this time it is in Space!
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=10506
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J.D. Welch

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Re: Lorns Guide to PHR or German Space Magic

PostSat Sep 26, 2015 1:50 am

Excellent summary, Lorn, thank you very much.

I like the Apollo blob a lot. One of our local players has won the last two monthly tournaments with them. I tried it for one game, and won because the other guy wasn't playing to the mission (Recon++, and he was just trying to table me), but I need to tweak that list up a bit as it had way too little AA, just two Phobos in a Neptune. It needs at least one Helios squad in a Neptune, although I think the Phobos could be split up and walk on as you have them in this list.

What are your thoughts on the Nemesis?
I love my job (well, I love having a job), but a bad day of gaming beats a good day of work every time!

http://www.theroadtovalhalla.blogspot.com
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