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UCM mass driver fleet. Comments?

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Nicius

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UCM mass driver fleet. Comments?

PostWed Sep 27, 2017 12:20 pm

Been wanting to try this out for a while. Any points of improvemet



Mass drivers - 1239pts
UCM - 9 launch assets

SR11 Vanguard battlegroup (200pts)
1 x Moscow - 163pts - H
1 x Lima - 37pts - L

SR11 Vanguard battlegroup (242pts)
1 x Atlantis - 205pts - H
   + UCM Commodore (40pts, 3AV)
1 x Lima - 37pts - L

SR9 Line battlegroup (260pts)
1 x Seattle - 132pts - M
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L

SR12 Line battlegroup (301pts)
1 x Seattle - 132pts - M
1 x Rio - 105pts - M
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L

SR4 Pathfinder battlegroup (128pts)
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L

SR4 Pathfinder battlegroup (88pts)
3 x Santiago - 66pts - L
1 x Santiago - 22pts - L
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swampsheep

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Re: UCM mass driver fleet. Comments?

PostWed Sep 27, 2017 3:43 pm

I don't play UCM, so take that in mind reading my comments. I have played a lot against UCM, however.

Lima; What's the reason, that you don't group them into one battle group? If you want to seize initiative, I would rather have a SR10 and a SR12 thatn 2 x SR11.

New Orleans; Damn, there's a lot of them. I think 10 is too much, actually. I guess it is a target-saturation strategy and it might last you the start, but eventually, you'll be outgonned and lose superiority also in ground-launching capability.
I think you should always include a troopship. They are better at handling space stations and they can drop defence batteries. Strike carriers are too fragile when they have to stay in low orbit. So maybe replace some with at least one troopship.
In any case, I would remove two of them from the Pathfinder group and move them to another battle groupe (maybe the ones with the santiagos) to have an effecient double-tap group (See http://linkedbroadsides.com/three-mini-tactics/ for explanation what I mean with double-tap) with only SR2.

Atlantis; This is a general observation (that is, not reserved for your list), but I am starting to ponder if two seattles isn't - in some cases - superior to an atlantis.
Pros: Twice the launch capacity. Ability to spread out. Never need to go weapons free. Overall, more durable.
Cons: 59 points more expensive + the cost of admiral discount, unless you have another suitable ship for that. Slightly less PD. Slightly less firepower (missing a set of UF-4200 Mass drivers).
In any case, it is consideration. Fewer eggs in one basket.
http://linkedbroadsides.com - My blog with analysis, tactics and thoughts about dropfleet. Updates weekly, mostly on Mondays.
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Nicius

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Re: UCM mass driver fleet. Comments?

PostWed Sep 27, 2017 4:28 pm

I've found that UCM troopships are very iffy. I think I can get more out of strike carriers that out of troopships. Mind you UCM troopships do not have that beeft PHR heavy cruiser profile.

I understand where you're coming from with the Seattles vs Atlantis. But the point is I only have 2 Seattles.

I'm familiar with double tapping and have found tgat SR4 works just as well as lower SR values.
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swampsheep

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Re: UCM mass driver fleet. Comments?

PostWed Sep 27, 2017 7:48 pm

I know, that PHR troopships are somewhat more durable (3 extra hull).

However, in LO UCM troop ships are around 20 % more durable for the points than UCM carriers (depending on the distribution of critical hits, etc.). They are maybe subject to more fire than the strike carriers but in that case, it might give the strike carriers the calm they need even though they are in LO as well. I would go for troopships even with UCM.

You are probably right that in many cases doubletapping with SR4 is sufficient - I guess I just like to play it safe.
http://linkedbroadsides.com - My blog with analysis, tactics and thoughts about dropfleet. Updates weekly, mostly on Mondays.
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Nicius

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Re: UCM mass driver fleet. Comments?

PostThu Sep 28, 2017 8:48 am

Well, I've been using UCM troopships for a while now and without much succes. Usually the same effectiveness can be had with three strike carriers. UCM troopships are really the worst kind of troopship.

Bringing a large group of strike carriers also gives you safety in numbers, since I can afford to lose one or two. Once in atmosphere they are reasonably safe and I have a low SR corvette group to intercept any enemy corvettes as well
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swampsheep

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Re: UCM mass driver fleet. Comments?

PostThu Sep 28, 2017 9:20 pm

Yeah, I see the strategy. I guess we just have different experiences with the UCM troopships.
http://linkedbroadsides.com - My blog with analysis, tactics and thoughts about dropfleet. Updates weekly, mostly on Mondays.
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ghostgundam1

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Re: UCM mass driver fleet. Comments?

PostFri Oct 13, 2017 3:44 am

Did you ever run your list? Kind of wondering how it worked out for you.
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swampsheep

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Re: UCM mass driver fleet. Comments?

PostFri Oct 13, 2017 8:03 pm

After this debate, I did a bit of analysis of why I think the UCM troopship has its uses. It can be read here: http://linkedbroadsides.com/the-case-for-troopships/
http://linkedbroadsides.com - My blog with analysis, tactics and thoughts about dropfleet. Updates weekly, mostly on Mondays.
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Lorn

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Re: UCM mass driver fleet. Comments?

PostSat Oct 14, 2017 7:23 am

But it has the ability to drop 6 infantry. I’ll spare you the math and approximations but 6 infantry are somewhat better than 3 tanks but equally bad against 4 tanks.


Actually that is false at least over time, to elaborate:

3 Tank tokens have 9 Attacks out of which 4,5 will hit and 3 Infantry tokens will fail their saves.

6 Infantry tokens have 6 Attacks out of which 3 hit removing 1 Tank token.


Thus if the fight continues the tanks will on average murder the infantry as they sustained 33% losses against 50%, though if the fight takes only one turn or there is no fight at all the Infantry can be better at controlling a sector/station due to the number of tokens.


Also in your blog post you leave out weapons that benefit from big targets like the Diamonds Particle Triade or the Avalon BTL, which like to eat Troopships for breakfast. Secondly an important part of survivability in DFC is whether you are seen or not. A Troopship is one target to scan and has a higher signature (3" more in case of UCM 5" more in case of Scourge). Those factors detract from the survivability you proclaim.


Though I think that in low orbit the playing field between Strike Carriers and Troopships is pretty even as you mention, in case of the PHR even to the advantage of the Troopships, but most missions also or only contain Cluster which allow Strike Carriers to reach atmosphere. Then this turns to the disadvantage of troopships.

German space magic for PHR would you like to know more?
http://www.hawkforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=7017

German space magic for all and this time it is in Space!
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=10506
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Nicius

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Re: UCM mass driver fleet. Comments?

PostSat Oct 14, 2017 11:53 am

ghostgundam1 wrote:Did you ever run your list? Kind of wondering how it worked out for you.



Not yet. I haven't had to time to get a game in due to real life and work getting in the way.
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